Turns over but will not start; battery?

[Matt865]

Hi folks,

 

I acknowledge that this may be a common issue with multiple potential causes, but the problem began only after the battery died, so I'm focusing on this for now and hope I'm not duplicating another thread.

 

1984 Mini Mayfair automatic with 1000cc displacement.

 

The wife left the lamps on, draining the battery.

 

It turns over when attempting to jump-start it, but does not always ignite.  About 1 out of every 50 tries is successful (considerably undesirable!).  After being started and driven to charge the battery, then halting and attempting to start it again, it did start but expired after 5 yards.  Again, the engine cranks over but will not start (even with jumper cables).  This 1 in 50 chance/independent mind suggested a loose connection, but all connections appear to be secure...

  All connections appear to be in good standing;

  Spark plugs and distributor cables are approximately three years old, but have seen minimal use.

  Everything looks parched;

  The battery's age is unknown, but it is at least six years old and presumably older.

  All connections are good.

 

Therefore, given that this only started when the battery ran out, could it merely require a new battery?

 

If jump-starting simulates a battery in ideal health, can the battery be ruled out as the cause?  Or, even with a jumpstart, can a deceased battery still disrupt the circuit/prevent adequate charge for ignition/sparks?

 

Please excuse my naiveté.  I trust this adequately explains how the depleted battery and abrupt onset of the problem appear to be no mere coincidence.  Any thoughts?

[Blu_Ray_UK2007]

It would seem that your battery has run out of juice. A depleted battery will eventually fail due to this. And the answer is that it will do so even when disconnected from an external source or battery.
Because of the low voltage that is being supplied, the coil will not produce a strong spark, making it difficult to start the vehicle. In the event that it is electronic, there will most likely not be any spark at all.
Investing in a new battery after it has been used for six years is a smart idea.

[Craigbelont]

If cranking, jumpstarting should eliminate battery. Start at the beginning and see if it sparks—is it gasoline related? moist or sooted plugs. Start with starting, then cut off while driving.

[Craigbelont]

If cranking is normal, jumpstarting should rule out the battery, which appears to be the case. begin at the outset and determine if sparking is occurring; if so, is the problem fuel-related? Are the inserts moist or blackened? Work first on getting it to start, then on stopping while travelling.

[Matt865]

Already, thanks for the answers.  If it's an old battery anyway, I might as well buy a new one and see if that fixes the problem.  I'll send the housekeeper to get one, and I'll keep the thread up to date.

 

Yes, I'll look into it if it's still the same problem, as coopertaz so kindly offers.  (I forgot to mention that fuel is getting to the engine fine and is only a month old).

 

This could be related: I put in a USB port a long time ago.  Worked well, and the directions were clear.  I did notice, though, that while it works fine for small devices, it doesn't really charge a GPS and seems to even make the idle jerky.  The USB isn't the problem because it's not plugged into anything right now.  But the GPS seems to add a demand that the circuits don't like.  So I no longer use the GPS in my mini.  Could this mean the battery had already reached the end of its useful life?  Or maybe minis aren't made for this kind of technology?

[Matt865]

UPDATE: Because the battery store is now closed, I attempted to start without jumpstart wires.  The symptoms are the same.  Then using jumper cables, with the same symptoms (only quicker turnover).

 

I removed a spark plug (see picture).  Not spotless, but not filthy either, particularly at the contacts, and with a touch of petroleum on it.  When the domestic boss switched on the engine, there was no spark.  Taking out the battery revealed that it was also well linked.

 

[alpaco45]

Most likely, "84" is "ballasted ignition." Is the bypass working right? The yellow-and-white wire that goes to the solenoid should only be live when the starter is turned on.

[Matt865]

I replaced the battery.  The elderly was tested and found to be dead.  The new one spins perfectly, but the issue persists.  I cleared off all accessible connections, but the problem persisted.  Next, I'll remove the grill and clean up the area surrounding it before inspecting the wiring.

 

I'm still thinking it's electrical.  I was cautious with the amount of jumpstarting I was performing, but is there a possibility it fried something and it wasn't going flat that created this issue, but the jumpstarting screwed something up?

 

I didn't mind purchasing a new battery since it was probably past time.  But, failing that, are there any other components I should consider replacing that are "worth it" even if they aren't the root of the problem?  Apart from serviceable items like spark plugs, wires, and the distributor cover (done 3 years ago), I don't believe anything related to the engine has ever been changed on it!

[Matt865]

6 minutes ago, alpaco45 said:

Most likely, "84" is "ballasted ignition." Is the bypass working right? The yellow-and-white wire that goes to the solenoid should only be live when the starter is turned on.

Ie appreciate your response.  The coil specifies that it must be wired into a ballast circuit.  I know this makes me seem really foolish, but I believe I located the ballast in the screenwash container.  It's not an exact match, but it's around the same size as this one: Back to Search | Minispare.com |

 

The hues you describe are ones I'm not familiar with.  I can't say for sure, but it may have been redone at some time.  I may have messed up the jumpstarting process.

 

Do I have it right that this is a suitable replacement and that it is as simple as rejoining it in the same way it was removed?  The Haynes handbook is vague on this topic, and it does not specify where the ballast should be situated.

 

[alpaco45]

What you have discovered (a three-inch metallic cylinder with wires on each end?) is the ballast resistor for dim-dip headlamps.

 

Examine the positive coil terminal. If it is ballasted and authentic, there will be two conductors. One pink/white conductor that IS the ballast (the resistive wire). The opposite is yellow/white.  The ignition circuit must have a total resistance of approximately 3 ohms; otherwise, the distributor points have a tendency to vaporise. Either a 3 ohm coil with no ballast (white wire) or a 1.5 ohm coil with a ballast. Coils may be marked either 12v for unballasted or Ballast or 9v for, um, ballasted.

[Craigbelont]

The 12v supply to bypass the ballast system for start up should be a little wire coming to the coil from the starting solenoid; use a test bulb to see whether this wire is connected to the solenoid's centre pole.

[jimmy47785]

Are you keeping 12.4-12.8v after leaving the carnas for a while?

If there is a drain, the +ve wire may be arcing off the body and draining stuff.

[Matt865]

6 minutes ago, alpaco45 said:

What you have discovered (a three-inch metallic cylinder with wires on each end?) is the ballast resistor for dim-dip headlamps.

 

Examine the positive coil terminal. If it is ballasted and authentic, there will be two conductors. One pink/white conductor that IS the ballast (the resistive wire). The opposite is yellow/white.  The ignition circuit must have a total resistance of approximately 3 ohms; otherwise, the distributor points have a tendency to vaporise. Either a 3 ohm coil with no ballast (white wire) or a 1.5 ohm coil with a ballast. Coils may be marked either 12v for unballasted or Ballast or 9v for, um, ballasted.

Apologies for the delayed response.  I've attached some images.  It has a pink/white wire from the coil, but it is difficult to determine where it goes (although it appears to lead to what I believed was the 'ballast block'; see images 1 and 2).  However, it is difficult to determine if there is a pink/white component to that.  Probably irrelevant if you do not believe this to be significant.  Any thoughts on what I could do next, now that these photographs have presumably clarified my current setup?

 

Thanks also for additional responses.  All of this began when I attempted to jumpstart (I'm still unsure if the act of jumpstarting itself caused the issue, within a component, for example).  But I will also check to see if any cables are rubbing against the bodywork.